Hyvinvoiva yrittäjänainen 5: Being a female Entrepreneur in Finland

[musiikkia] 

Outi: Welcome to Metropodia, the podcast channel of Metropolia University of Applied Sciences. And the series, ‘Hyvinvoiva Yrittäjänainen’, well-being for female entrepreneur. Today we are discussing the experiences of female entrepreneurs with a foreign background. My name is Outi Pyrhönen. I’m a vocational teacher. My areas of interest are strengthening the interaction between people, promoting well-being and community spirit. I’m the host of this episode.  

Heini: And I am Heini Maisala-McDonnell. I’m also a vocational teacher and I have a physiotherapy and entrepreneur background.  

Heli: Hello. My name is Heli Savela. I’m a textile artist.  

Kelly: Hey, I’m Kelly Duval. I’m a freelance writer and editor.  

Outi: Welcome, Heli and Kelly to this podcast. 

[music] 

Outi: Be interested to hear about your entrepreneurship path and your business. Heli, could you tell us something about your business and your work? 

Heli: Well, yes. I would say if I had to describe what I do is that I have set up my business in a way that there are basically two sides. One is the artist side, so I make artwork. And then the other part is more like teaching part let’s say, and that consists of workshops. I also offer supplies. The technique that I focus on is called punch needle, and it’s quite not that popular in Finland yet, and it’s gaining popularity so I offer supplies, the teaching and everything around it. So it fits my personality as well I feel like that I have different things that I can juggle around.  

Outi: Were you an entrepreneur before you moved to Finland?  

Heli: Actually it all happened at the same time. So looking back, it all aligned very, very naturally and logically. I would say that I never maybe thought that I would have a company in one point or another. But then again, all the decisions that I made throughout the life, they kind of led me do this road and actually my personality I feel now looking back also fits the mould of, or I don’t know. I feel very natural in this role or in this set, let’s say. 

Outi: So you didn’t choose to be an entrepreneur, but entrepreneurship chose you maybe or that was ready for you. 

Heli: Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. I think that at one point, I started to think that, OK, how do I want my days to be like. Who with do I want to communicate. What do I want to do throughout the days. A very simple day, how is it going to look. And by that I kind of maybe mould my own this structure.  

Outi: So you’ve been happy with your chosen path.  

Heli: I definitely have. I feel I have some skills still to learn, to master. There are some practicalities that I want to know more about and also I want to learn more about myself so that I can be a better person or a better businesswoman [laughs] I would say so. Yeah, there are practical skills and also my own mindset or how I think or how I process things or how big I dream and things like that.  

Outi: How about you, Kelly? 

Kelly: Yeah, so actually, next month it will be one year since I started this entrepreneurship journey. In mid-April is when I quit my previous job. So yeah, I’ve been here in Finland for almost five years. In the summer, it’ll be five years. But yeah, it’s only been about a year since I’ve made this transition. So previously I was working as a content marketing manager for a tech company in Finland. And when I first moved here I was working at a marketing agency and in content as well. I just recently started this journey but I’m also happy with my choice. 

Outi: So what made you to make the transition from being a kind of salary person to an entrepreneur? 

Kelly: It’s something that I’ve kind of always wanted to try. Some part of me just always wanted to try doing this on my own. I didn’t know exactly what that would look like. Something in the world of writing because it’s kind of always been what I’ve been doing for since being a student and actually a few years ago, I had a small side company with a friend of mine in Canada and we were doing this freelance content marketing and writing work for small businesses and solo entrepreneurs. But yeah, eventually then it didn’t fit where we were in that season of life so we decided to put that on the side, but then that gave a good maybe entry points or gave me more appetite to continue that way of working. I think looking back whenever I was thinking, OK, how do I want to progress in my career, what do I want to do next, whenever I would have those kinds of reflection moments, I would always think that I wanted to try working for myself. But then the timing never felt right. It was always a scary move, going from financial stability and having this structured way of working to just winging it on my own was like I don’t know. Maybe not now. Maybe let’s stay at this job for another year or so. But then I think most recently when I was, yeah, I guess a bit over a year ago when I was thinking about this again, it was just you know what, the timing is never gonna be right, but it doesn’t have to be so black and white. Let me just try this. If it doesn’t work, if I don’t enjoy it, there’s nothing stopping me from choosing another path. So I think just the fact that it kept on being something that I wanted, I thought, OK, I’m going to give myself that chance to just try it and see what happens.  

Outi: Sounds to me that it also takes some bravery.  

Heli: Yeah, definitely. And overcoming this idea that it’s all black and white that once you become or once you build your own business, this is it. You are almost chained to it or something like that. You can always change your mind. You can always go back to a regular job. 

Kelly: Yeah, exactly. I think it’s so easy in so many aspects of life to think that any choice is like this is now the path, that one strict path you’re on, but nothing is black and white and things are always changing. And I kind of thought, OK, would I regret it more if I didn’t try this versus if I just… 

Heli: Yeah. Exactly. 

Kelly: …gave it a shot. 

Heli: And you never know how it’s actually going to be, how you are going to be in this role. I think we have all some ideas that oh I’m not suitable for this or that or I’m going to be that way. But you will figure them those things out only when you try them and you see because in this type of life, you have so many surprises, I think. 

Outi: If you think back to the beginning point when you started your business, I think there are different kind of possibilities to get guidance and support in Finland like advisory services, training or some kind of financial help or support like start-up grant is one example of that. How well did you get information of these being available and did these things help you as a beginner? 

Kelly: Yeah, good question. I remember thinking back at that time. It was a lot of life admin or business admin to figure out. I was doing a lot of research, and there were a lot of resources out there, but at one point I felt like am I missing something if I make a certain move, am I going to mess something up. Is there information that I’m missing that I would need to know. So when I started, I was actually using this service, Ukko, like this light entrepreneurship service. Then when I transitioned to having this toiminimi or solo entrepreneur, I ended up actually finding this resource business advisors. I used the one in Espoo. And that was actually really helpful. I made an appointment with this one woman and then it was just helpful to ask some of the questions I had just to ask one person and get all that information just in one context. And she’s actually the one who suggested that I apply for this start-up grant. I wouldn’t have thought to apply for that. I thought it was more of something for, I don’t know, different kinds of slightly bigger companies, not somehow solo entrepreneurs. I don’t know. Just the perception of that. I didn’t really, it wasn’t on my radar. But I applied and actually I got that. So that was quite a nice support at the beginning of starting, this start-up grant. And they have got some services as well for marketing and sales kind of consultancy, I guess. 

Outi: Making a business plan and… 

Kelly: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that was quite helpful actually. Just having that one person made it a bit easier than digging for information everywhere. There’s not a lack of information and resources, but it can just be overwhelming to know where to begin. And that question of am I going to do something terribly wrong and get kicked out of the country. [laughter] 

Outi: So that’s a big help when there’s one person that you can turn to. 

Kelly: Yeah. 

Heli: Well, my case was a bit different because just before moving to Finland, I actually registered a company in Estonia because our move was quite sudden or with a short notice or something like that. So I came here. I had already registered the company. And one thing that I did that I’m happy about was that I signed up with an accounting firm. Every month I pay something, but I have this knowledge and this safety net that everything is OK and everything is according to law, correctly. I don’t have to be afraid about every letter that arrives on my doorstep. That oh my God, is something wrong. [laughter] That’s a good thing. What I wish for is that I too would have liked to maybe have one person or a list, a clearer road map to just check out all the boxes that if I have everything correctly because there is a lot of guessing and there’s a lot of googling and there’s a lot of information which is great. I think Finland, the atmosphere is quite supportive. I guess I went to a consultant meeting thingy in this CO-Helsinki Building, and I had a consulting meeting there, but that was more about the mindset and the business model and things that, which I think that you were eventually going to figure out on your own. What is tricky are all that small annoying details like bank card. How to make a bank account for your business. This is super annoying. Very tricky I think. And things like that. Of course, accounting is another thing. There are so many different accounting firms and you will need a very specific accountant for your own firm. So things like that I wish. There’s a lot of this extra bubble and this information is widely available, but the specifics. Nobody is talking about that. 

Outi: To know what applies exactly in your situation.  

Heli: Yeah, exactly. I want practical guidance. I want somebody to tell me that, I don’t know, like there’s a company for artists. Let’s say accountants who are specialising in artists. I figured out that I can, let’s say that I can, not price but there are different these tax percentages for different products. So for some products I can add 24 percent, right? But I didn’t know for example that [laughing] for artwork you can add ten percent. So I found it out later than I maybe would have fished for. So things like that. 

[music] 

Outi: So there are a lot of challenges of being a business woman, but what would be the good sides of it? 

Kelly: Good question. There’s a lot of good as well. I think maybe one big good thing is just maybe the confidence that comes with this path. There’s a lot of challenges to overcome but I think by overcoming those challenges, even if it’s a bit of a struggle and an uphill battle each time you do something, you realise that, OK, I could do this and I could do it again and do something similar. So I think that has been a big thing. Just helping with confidence overall. Not to say that there are not some days where you feel low or that what am I doing, have I made this huge mistake, but I think overall just being confident that OK, I’m able to do this on my own. Yes, I still want support and help, but it’s a big thing I think. And just having this, like Heli was saying, this kind of control or the choices you can make for your own days and so many things that are in your control when it comes to how you structure your days, what kind of work you do, what kind of people you work with. Just having that accountability. There’s pros and cons to that, of course. Or there’s things that… 

Heli: Yeah, that’s very true. Actually the part that one of the side effects, let’s say, is that how you are growing as a person and that kind of flows into your own personal life as well. You gain confidence by owning your own company, making decisions, building. You’re literally creating a life for yourself. Building great thing, what you’re doing, how is it all going to plan out. And that kind of affects also your personal life because I think there is more trust and confidence that whatever happens, you will figure it out and you can create your whole life.  

Kelly: Definitely. And those things are so connected. We’re not so separate from all these aspects of our life. So I think things can feed into each other in this good way. 

Heli: Yeah. And maybe with that regular jobs, let’s say they are more separated. You have your work life and then you have your personal life. But with your own business, everything is a big mix. [laughs] And it’s also interesting that with the regular job, you have only your own tasks, your own field that you’re specialising in, but with your business, you can do everything. That is, I really love it. I know where I have to put my focus on, what are the more important tasks. I can do one thing more admin tasks one day, and more let’s say, creative planning in another day. So that is also this pleasant, chaotic experience. 

Kelly: Exactly. You wear so many hats, and everything that you wouldn’t be doing otherwise. If you were doing a regular job, you wouldn’t be kind of a marketer and in sales and operations and admin and HR and all these things. So I think it kind of forces you to expand your horizons. 

Outi: Like you said, you wear a lot of hats and there are a lot of challenges also, and you have to figure things out. Do you ever feel lonely? Since you both you are in business on your own, do you miss some kind of supportive community? 

Heli: Yeah, definitely. I think that it comes and goes this feeling of loneliness or so. But I think that there have been times definitely where I felt that I’m the only one who is unable to figure everything out right away. [laughs] But the more I see people, the more I talk to people I actually have started to notice that everybody are kind of lost. [laughter] Everybody are just trying to figure out, they’re doing their best and this is the land of unknown. This it’s the part of it and it’s the good part of it. It’s a nice thing. 

Kelly: I think that’s the secret of life is everyone’s just winging it and we all feel like there’s something we’re missing. But we’re all just trying our best. I think I have the same. There’s kind of comes and goes. I’ve always enjoyed working on my own and doing this kind of focused deep work, but at the same time I’m human and I know we all need connections and that kind of working where you’re collaborating with someone else or having those connections also brings energy and new ways of thinking and inspiration. So not having the colleagues built into my work, it’s something that, I was used to working remotely already before, but I think just maybe the switch of having to be more intentional with connecting with people. You’re not having casual coffee chats or running into people, your co-workers, but having to kind of seek connections with other people in the same space and have that feeling of, OK, I’m not alone in this. Other people are going through the same kinds of things and it’s not always that someone needs to give you a solution or solve your problem, but just sharing that space and feeling like you’re supported in a way. 

Heli: Yeah. And it’s also I think very important to understand that you can yourself choose how social you are, you want to be, that you can reach out to people. It’s OK. You can ask somebody for a coffee meeting or just for a casual chat. Or you can build your business in a way that occasionally you will meet more people. I think that strangely, I feel more social right now than for example in previous jobs where I did some customer service or even  some project management things where I supposedly met a lot of people, talked a lot during the day, but I wasn’t that social actually. The social part was different than what it is now. 

Outi: Are you talking about more meaningful… 

Heli: Yeah. Meaningful. Definitely. Yeah. 

Outi: relationships with people and… 

Heli: On a different layer. 

Outi: …other businesswomen as well? 

[music] 

Outi: How has the networking in Finland, in Finnish business world worked for you? Are there possibilities to make networks in English, as you both work in English mainly? Also in Finnish. But how do you find that in your case? 

Kelly: Yeah. At least my previous work kind of helped me build connections in this industry, so I think if I had just moved here and tried starting this kind of business, maybe it would be hard or there would be more, I would just need to put a lot of effort into the networking and meeting people. So I think my existing connections help. But at the same time I am trying to be more intentional about putting myself out there or just meeting people, whether it’s other entrepreneurs or other people in the industry that I work in. I think maybe it’s always going to be a bit of a challenge if I’m more of an introvert, which I know a lot of people are in Finland. But I think in a way that’s just kind of forcing myself to go sometimes to physical events has been helpful and then just not having a huge goal by going there, but just being like OK, just me showing up is enough and whatever happens, happens. So not putting a ton of pressure on, but just kind of taking it step by step and just kind of trying to take those small steps. Maybe anywhere would be slightly challenging to build this network. Of course, maybe the language barrier adds another layer to things. But at least I know there are quite, I think there are quite many new networking groups or events that are out there for English language and they aren’t just for foreigners or people from elsewhere, but more of a mixed situation like this Oona group for example. So that’s quite nice. I would say it’s challenging, but not in a way that’s impossible. It just takes some intention and effort.  

Heli: Yeah, exactly. I think how you are putting yourself out there, it matters quite a lot, to have a an open mindset and be yeah, friendly basically [laughs] and looking out for new connections. Because again, the more I talk to people, there are so many people like us, who are feeling a bit lonely, who are more introverted and they enjoy spending time on their own, but occasionally they still want to have meaningful conversations and connections. 

Outi: So do you feel has it been useful for you to tell another business woman about your business, even though the women would not be from your field? Is it helpful to get the different point of view or even just to word your own business? 

Heli: Yeah, I think so. I think that with this setup or in this group, I have been more open or more, I even said after my own presentation that I felt naked, that I let this light in on all my plans and all my ideas, the way they are in my own head basically. And yeah, it makes it more maybe real in a way. And they are not something very, I think that when you are keeping those things only for yourself, they have this dreamy state. They’re in a different level, but once you get them out and the space and the group was very, very good in that sense that it was the perfect atmosphere to do it. This is very important as well that you are sharing your openness to the right people let’s say. 

Outi: Safe environment. 

Heli: Safe environment. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. People who will understand or they are just there to listen. That is important. 

Outi: This group you are talking about, Oona group, Hyvinvoiva Yrittäjänainen, we met or our goal was to meet in personal level as well as in business level. Talk about the business, talk about how you are doing and how you can do even better, and you had different backgrounds and different kind of businesses. And it was bilingual also. What kind of other experiences did you have in this group? 

Kelly: Yeah, I’m just thinking about the meaningful connections that we just talked about. I think that was maybe something that I felt like I was lacking or wanting before this group, where I mean it was still in the early stages of being an entrepreneur, but it’s kind of maybe easy to make superficial connections with other people or meets, but then maybe not keep that connection going. But I think this group really facilitated this kind of, like you mentioned, this kind of safe space where you just show up as you are and you can connect with other people who are not necessarily in your same industry or different phase in their career but just having that just very honest open connection with other people. And yeah, I don’t know. It’s made a big impact I think just in terms of also being a bit more open to receiving help, asking for help and also giving help. Being able to learn from other entrepreneurs, kind of the behind the scenes of their business and what they’re struggling with or what they’re excited about. There’s a lot of parallels that can be drawn I think. So even though we’re not in the same field, there’s so many things that we still share in common that I think it’s just, I don’t know, it’s really rewarding to be able to learn from others and help as well. That was a really fun process in in this group. 

Heli: The detail that it was a regular thing, that we met regularly had a bigger impact as well because I think that I have people who I feel safe with or who I always like to talk about business and dive more deeply into these matters. The regular aspect of this was really, really interesting. Because now I feel I’m craving for it, [laughter] I want more of it. I want to have this in my life for forever. So it’s really important. It’s surprisingly important. 

Kelly: Yeah, I think you mentioned last week that this kind of supportive environment, maybe has felt like something that was a nice to have or not so necessary, but now it feels vital to functioning. 

Heli: Yeah, exactly. 

Kelly: And I kind of know what you mean. At least we’ve been talking about keeping up these kinds of, keep continuing to meet after the end of this this group session. I have the same feeling where I don’t want to give up what this has been.  

Heli: Maybe one subject that I would like to talk about that is more recent for me and is more interesting for me is that aspect of being a friend to yourself. That it’s a very important part of being an entrepreneur. And how to be a good friend for yourself, or how to be this support person to yourself. I feel that when I’m talking to a lot of people who have their own companies. They sometimes tell me that maybe they’re feeling alone or they’re feeling that oh, I would like some more help with this or that or nobody has told me about this. I myself have talked about in that way, but I feel that there is a lot of strength when you find these things within yourself. And when you’re having your own company, especially when you’re having a solo company or a solo business, there’s only you. There is the outside world and then there is you. But in these moments, when you are struggling, when you have to make a decision, when you’re doubting, when you have to basically cut through the jungle [laughs] and lead your own road, make your own road, then there’s you and how do you nurture yourself, how do you take care of yourself is so important. So yeah. The past year, I’ve somehow, not intentionally at first, but eventually more intentionally thought about it, practised it, made some adjustments in my life, and it has actually been so effective or it has had such a big impact. It’s actually why I’m here. Because I think last fall or somewhere, I thought that ah, Heli, you should be more active, show up in events or try to put yourself out there more in these public events. One thing led to another, and here I am and I’m feeling that oh, these meetings have almost been like a lucky charm for myself, because over the months that we have met, good things have happened to me and I think a lot has had to do with my own confidence and my own, like there’s some easiness, let’s say. Even easiness. It’s not confident or I’m the king of the world, but it’s this relaxed easiness. 

Kelly: Yeah, I like that. Not always, struggling, pushing, pushing, pushing so much in some way. Yeah. Some theme that has come from these groups has been the importance of mindset, and maybe that’s an overused kind of phrase, but I think that that’s just, I don’t know, it keeps coming back to that for me as well, where again because we are kind of it’s down to you in every respect, of course you can get support, but at the end of the day, if you’re not your own friend or if you’re just really talking negatively to yourself or going down these negative thought spirals, everything is going to crumble, right. So you need to have the foundations ready. Just the basic self-care things like getting enough sleep and food like we talked about last week. And then, yeah, just taking the time to also get out of the weed a little bit too. I think maybe in a regular job or even in any kind of work, it can be easy to just do the day-to-day and months and years go by, but just being aware of how we’re talking to yourself and taking time to reflect on what’s been going on, where do you want to go, how are you feeling now and just taking that time to really be aware and be kind to yourself, I think is important. 

Heli: Yeah, and because that way you will find the right systems how to work or how to discipline yourself or how to figure out your days and how to do some tasks. 

Kelly: Yeah. Exactly. 

[music] 

Outi: How about making a connection? We had some a mixed, like did it have any importance to you to have Finnish businesswoman in the group? 

Heli: Oh definitely. Yeah, definitely. 

Kelly: Yeah. 

Heli: And especially that we were all in different stages and we were different backgrounds and all the differences that are really nice I think. 

Kelly: I think so too. Sometimes these kinds of groups can be very separate, like Finnish speakers and then foreigners. And I think maybe in some ways you could already feel a bit like an outsider in some social context. So I think this really helped to feel like OK, we can come together and share in that way. So that was a really, really nice aspect.  

Heli: Yeah. I think that too. 

Outi: And I think mixing the languages and being together, it’s a benefit both ways, in both directions. Learning skills from and learning language skills from each other. 

Heli: Definitely.  

Outi: I think there would be a room more for that kind of interaction. 

Heli: Yeah, definitely. Because I think in obvious ways it benefits us, but it also benefits I think Finnish people to… 

Outi: Absolutely. 

Heli: …communicate with foreigners and have a different insight and advice and just this already the language thing is unique or nice.  

Kelly: Exactly. And when in doubt, if you don’t know a word, you can just say thingy as we’ve discussed. [laughter] 

Outi: Yeah. Proper native English speaker. 

Kelly: So no pressure.  

Outi: And I think that was the thing from your part too, how encouraging you were to our Finnish participants for them to use English. Last week we talked about the meaning of English or how it affects our meetings or our thinking. That sometimes when you tell about your business in English, it’s a little bit different than telling it in your native language because you have to simplify it and you have to make the key points much more clear, so it also clarifies the thing for yourself. 

Heli: Yeah, definitely. I think also there is, I feel like there is this personal Heli who speaks Estonia, and then there is this business Heli who speaks English. I consume quite a lot of English materials or contacts or all my business is done in English. I also read in English. So there is a lot of English in my life. [laughs] And in a way, when I’m describing my company, then there is a lot more freedom or this safety when I’m communicating in another language. 

Kelly: And I’m speaking in my native language so I feel slightly guilty. [laughter] Which is actually a theme I think in general. In some contexts, we’ve talked about there’s this sense of guilt like I’m sorry to make you speak English. And I feel I don’t have that. I just have a lot of respect for people who are conducting business or lives in not their native tongue because I know how, yeah. It’s another level of effort that you just kind of, you don’t always see. So yeah, I just really appreciate that and appreciate the effort that people make too. I’m very well aware that I’m fortunate to be able to speak in my native tongue. I think just thinking about that process when you are speaking a second or a third language, that you kind of just have to cut straight to the chase. So I think it is kind of an interesting, comes with some benefits of just having to simplify and like you said, clarify for yourself, OK, what am I trying to say. So I think I can take that in my own speaking in English as well I think. 

Outi: And even though you would speak your native language, you may have thoughts, you may have plans on paper, but when you have to actually say it out loud, I think you also clarify your thoughts. 

Kelly: Yeah, definitely. 

Outi: And at the same time you are still working in English in a Finnish environment. So actually you are in… 

Kelly: Yeah, that’s true. 

Outi: …the same situations. 

Heli: That’s true. 

Kelly: Yeah. That’s true. 

Heli: Exactly. Because I think that the thing is that OK, you have your own business. There is a lot of unknown. There is a lot of this foggy area and when you are living in a new country or a foreign country in an environment where they speak another language that you maybe don’t know so well, there is also a lot of unknown and fogginess. So there is a lot of, like this makes like a mixture that it’s even a positive thing to have this kind of a fresh environment. 

Kelly: That’s true. Yeah. 

Outi: How do you feel you have adjusted in living here? Or are there still surprises? 

Heli: There are definitely surprises. But I think again, it’s a good thing. You’re always on your toes. You’re always learning new things. You are making progress. I think it’s a really nice feeling when you are noticing things that before maybe a year ago seems very hard and hard to do, but now you’re like oh, I understand these words, and I can do this already without the translations. I can do it more easily. 

Outi: And it’s just a personal level question. I remember living in another country, when does it come home and I think one very concrete thing is when you fly in or come in, do you feel like you’re coming home? 

Heli: Definitely. Yes. Yeah. 

Kelly: Yeah. That’s a really big thing, I think because I’ve also thought of that. And it’s really interesting because of course, home, where my family is, where I’m from will always be a type of home. But then this building of a new home and having these two parallel homes is just really, I don’t know, it’s really fascinating, enriching. I think it’s maybe if you just live somewhere for six months, then it’s quite easy to not make that many deep connections or feel attached to a place. But after some time it really does feel like home. And like you said, there still are always new things. But yeah, these challenges and these even small improvements with feeling like you’re adapting or with the language, it’s quite rewarding. In some ways I feel, we’ve also talked about this in the group that maybe being somewhere where I don’t have the history of where I’m from and where I was when I was 12 and 15 years old and running into your high school classmates down the street. Which is fine, but not having that I think is, it just feels like you have a bit more freedom maybe to try new things, to be a bit braver. It’s not to say that you’re running away from where you’re from or escaping something, but just having this bit of a fresh perspective, I think it’s really helpful and you’re still you, but you’re just adapting to this new environment and I think that brings new things. 

Heli: Yeah, it’s a suitable environment, basically. A good place to. 

Outi: And you can make your choices differently. You almost create your different family because you are in a place where you are not from, so it is an opportunity. 

Heli: Yeah. I think Helsinki is an ideal place for it, to come live and make a new home for yourself because it feels quite homey. 

Kelly: It does, yeah. I like that it feels very comfortable and you can just be yourself.  

Heli: Yeah, exactly. People are super friendly. And one thing that I really like about Finnish people is that you never feel stupid with them. I feel that. For example, if you go to somewhere where you have to ask something, get some information and I know that I can put my question any way I want, as stupid as I want, as simply as I want and nobody will make me feel awkward about it. 

Outi: That’s interesting. 

Heli: That’s one thing. 

Outi: And that’s really nice to hear. Based on your experiences this far, what kind of ideas do you have about how to make the best possible environment here as an international business woman? How do you do it? 

Heli: Be brave. Be open-minded. Don’t wait that somebody will come to you and say that yes, you can join us and do this and do that. You just have to be clear about where you want to go, what you want to do and have this gentle approach or a gentle approach for yourself as well. 

Kelly: Yeah, I totally agree. I think maybe also not focusing on trying to be like everyone else or trying to just fit in. But I mean, it’s human nature to want to feel part of part of a group and part of a community, but maybe also just having an appreciation that what makes you different could also be a good thing and that you can bring things to the table. And just accepting yourself as you are and being willing to show up and join in, I guess. 

Heli: Yeah, definitely. And I think that maybe Finnish people are a bit, it takes a bit time to create meaningful and deeper and longer relationships, but that again is OK, and it’s actually a very special thing that you just have to keep up, show up, take initiative yourself and Finnish people will like it for sure.  

Kelly: Yeah, that’s true. I think there is a beauty to things taking time as well. There’s not so much fakeness here. You don’t need to worry about that aspect of things. 

Heli: And there’s also no rush. 

Kelly: There’s no rush. 

Heli: You can take it just slow.  

Kelly: Exactly.  

Outi: I think you get a lot of face value here in a way that it is what it is. It’s a genuine. It may be slow, but… 

Heli: Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. 

Kelly: Exactly. 

Outi: In this conversation, I think one of the main points has been the meaning of other people and meaning of networking and helpful relationship in professional level that you have accountants or you have advisory if needed, but also that you have people that you can be safe with and also the connection with yourself that it is essential to be friend with yourself as well and get support from yourself as well. Thank you, Kelly. 

Heini: Thank you. 

Outi: Thank you, Heli. 

Heli: Thank you. 

Heini: Thank you. 

Outi: And Heini for being here today with me. [laughter] Podcast-sarja Hyvinvoiva Yrittäjänainen on tuotettu osana Oona 2.0 – Yrittäjänaisten liiketoiminnan kasvua digitalisaation ja kumppanuusverkostojen kautta -ESR-hanketta. 

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